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04 November 2006 @ 09:04 pm
Movie-Verse Fans: Do Some Research  
GRRRR! This is only my third entry here and I need to go on a rant. For the record, this is not aimed at *anyone* on FF.net or here on the LiveJournal. Was another site on which I post.

I understand that not everyone in a fandom as large as Superman can like all of the leads. There are people who think Jimmy is a goofy and somewhat useless character, that Clark is just a complete disguise with no merit, that Lois is a complete bitch with no redeeming qualities. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It is a universal property. This story is part of our culture, belongs to all of us.

What I don't understand is how many people are aware that this is part of a series of films, yet give no reasoning behind the character's actions. I know that Bryan said this was a vague sequel, but what happened in Superman Returns was grounded in the original two films of the series, Superman: The Movie and Superman II. Events in those films shaped what happened there. We are picking up five (*LOL* Almost said six, for you LS fans) years after events. There is a history, a reason behind the hurt feelings there. Give them the history they deserve.

Even if you don't base your story directly on the original films' setup (and quite a few have chosen not to, which is great. Creativity greatly encouraged), give a reason for treating the character the way you do. Base it on a bit more than just the Superman Returns version. There was stuff going on with The Superman Family long before Superman Returns began. Don't just decide that you're going to go 'witchhunt' and make everyone hate them, too. There is a reasoning behind any person's behavior.

I particularly don't adore the Richard character, but he's an important part of Superman Returns. My original thought was to kill him off quickly, but honorably toward the end of the story. He was between Clark and Lois, something that is against the order of the universe to me, and I just wanted him gone. Anissa made me realize that there was a way to go about the situation without doing that, and reworking another character I've never had any love for, as well. Two for the price of one! (I'd explain what I mean on that, but it would spoil a good part of Act Three, one that I really am looking forward to, much to my own surprise!)

I'm not saying that you have to love this offense character. Just don't drive off readers of that particular angle because of your feelings. In this case, you're the journalist. It's your job to accurately portray this individual to your audience.

For example, both Lois and Superman had reasonings for what happened in SR, although the jury is still out as to how much she remembers. There are signs that she might know, then again signs that she doesn't. In a way it would be kinder if she didn't (Fans of Little Secrets will back me up on this). He did what he did partly out of duty, partly to stop her pain. He never stopped to think how she would feel about this, only that it was hurting her a great deal. And hurting him, for that matter, since you're the only one who knows it happened. She's hit with a double-edged sword: You love each other. Honestly love each other, more than anything else in the world. Enough so that breaking up would kill the both of you. But his being with you and not on his post caused the near-end of the world. And for you to handle it, all of your memories of those days is lost (or temperarily lost, as in LS).

If he's hurt, that's why he's hurt. In her case, if she's furious, it's because he walked out on her in what she thinks is the beginning of a relationship. He just up and disappears with no warning, leaving her crushed and not understanding. There is a reasoning behind it. She didn't just turn evil for no reason. Any woman (or man) who has been in that situation can understand that. Same with him, only not on such a fantastic scale. Use your experiences here. What would you have done, honestly? How would it make you feel, in either of their shoes? That's the best thing. Make yourself think about both sides of the story. Walk a mile....

Alright, I think I'm winding down now. I hope all of that made sense. I really did have a reasoning in writing that. I just hate when someone says 'I hate that character!' and then writes the whole story to reflect that. You walk away with a bad taste in your mouth and tend not to want to read that writer's work again. They ruin your whole experience on the website, forum, chat room, every time you run across them. Thankfully, that won't stop me, as I've been there longer, but....

That just frosts my cookies.
Beautiful Noise: Little Secrets Mix-Sarah McLachlan-World On Fire
Barbara: Deja Vuhtbthomas on November 5th, 2006 03:26 am (UTC)
Before I go to bed, I can't help but wonder which writers are so guilty of this... none of MY group, surely...? I love the stories of the people I beta, and I would never take on someone who had a clear bias without a logical reasoning behind it!

So rest assured... your opinion is shared. I also notice that the "canon" fics tend to do SO much better than the AUs, at least on ff.net. And even though yours is AU, the characters are canon, so I consider it a canon fic.
Lois: Lois Rolling Eyeskalalanekent on November 5th, 2006 04:20 am (UTC)
There's only one that had made me really upset about it and she has even criticized my story because I'm a Lois fan. And I really don't think they're one of yours. She only recently came to FF and belongs to BlueTights. She's the author of 'Sapphires, Crimson, and Rain' and 'Kal-El's Journals'. She just has such a hatred for Lois' character that she's willing to attack other people for liking her. There have been some others that I'm read from time to time, but this one... Thank God that there are only a few out there.

I'm sorry if I vented a little too much, but the confrontation we had last night really ticked me off.
Barbara: Just Betweenhtbthomas on November 5th, 2006 12:59 pm (UTC)
Ah, I should have known that it would be a Clark/OC fan. I've read her first one... even reviewed. Thank goodness she didn't attack me, because heaven knows, I'm a Lois fan. The whole story is in her POV! Maybe she's never read mine. I'll pray that she stays FAR away.
(no subject) - kalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 02:40 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - htbthomas on November 6th, 2006 02:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 03:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
Loiskalalanekent on November 5th, 2006 04:36 am (UTC)
And as to 'Canon', I agree. There are alot of people out there that like the traditional pairing. There's a reason for that, but if it's done right, I like the AU pairings as well. Sometimes and with justification, I've liked some of the Richard/Lois pairings. With certain history, it would make sense. It's easier, in a way, to keep those two together. Harder in others, though.

And LS is that weird little mix of canon and AU, like you said. It's the way I would have done SR, one that's consistant with the original series. I notice, especially on BT, that some of these people have never even seen the First Two. I suspect Lady Gwen is one of those, just from the way she describes Lois. Some only know half the story and start there. I can't imagine doing that. It's part of the reason for Act One. That just drives me nuts. Like she's breathing fire for no reason!

Annnnd I got to read a little more of the Donnor Cut info tonight, which means I'll be attempting to work it in a bit more. There is an important part they took out for that version that I kept, but the Donnor Cut is only one version. Most people are familiar with the theatrical, so we're still good.

The gun scene is in it, though. The *whole* gun scene. Did I mention that that scene was supposed to start with her coming out of the bathroom starkers, followed by Clark coming into the room and both of them falling back.

He's apologizing and looking away while fussing at her that just anyone could come in on her; her reaction is to say 'Oops' and duck into the bathroom for a towel to wrap up in, totally nonchalant. That is how our version started, too. I'm having the best time sneaking this stuff in. :) No musty Lois and Clark here, but my Clark will always be as subtle as Chris' and Brandon's. I like mine much better than the slick, hip version that Dean Caine played. Could I love these guys any more than I do? Nope.
Barbara: Awesome HIMYMhtbthomas on November 5th, 2006 01:04 pm (UTC)
I am really looking forward to the gun scene! And starkers? Hee.
Loiskalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 02:42 am (UTC)
Love ya, ya pervert. *LOL* It really sounds great. I'd send you the link, but I don't want to ruin any of it for you.
Barbara: Wink HIMYMhtbthomas on November 6th, 2006 02:47 am (UTC)
Pervert? Moi?

Actually, I read a review of the Donner cut on SuperheroHype today. No Super Kiss! Oh, well, I suspected that would be true.

But I still say Singer has to explain just EXACTLY how Lois and Superman managed to create a child, and her not know about Clark. Because I truly believe that he would not get intimate with a woman without being honest about it.
(no subject) - kalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 03:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - htbthomas on November 6th, 2006 03:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 03:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
Brian's FanFic Journalmr_beeto on November 5th, 2006 12:24 pm (UTC)

Seriously, I think we fanfic authors have an obligation to stay true to the characters. There is history and depth there, and when we start trying to reinvent them, we just confuse the readers. However, we can twist a small piece of the canon into AU (like you've done), and still be true to the history, the characters, and the audience. I've got an AU idea up my sleeve, too, but when I get to it, I intend to stay true to the canon otherwise. (It'll be a better reason to go back to Krypton that because 'it was there', which was mighty weak. The rest of the issues, like leaving without saying goodbye, will still be there).

I got some grief when I posted chapter 39 of HIWTHI at FF who didn't like my portrayal of Martha as a devout woman. (Without revealing too much, that chapter introduces a new character, the Kent's pastor, Reverend Swan). For me, to do otherwise would be a betrayal of the character. Can't do that.

I think we're all same page here, as I suspect are most of Barb's authors. You rant is my rant, too.
Barbara: Lois Lost in Thoughthtbthomas on November 5th, 2006 01:06 pm (UTC)
Seriously, I think we fanfic authors have an obligation to stay true to the characters.

I think it should be a requirement!! What are these people doing writing fanfiction if they can't stay true to the characters' basic nature!?

So I'm always a little flabbergasted when someone compliments - "Your characters are spot on!" I guess I always assume they should be, otherwise, what's the point?
Brian's FanFic Journalmr_beeto on November 5th, 2006 01:46 pm (UTC)
As far as staying true to the characters go, one of my biggest pet peeves is the tendency of some fic authors to completely demonize Richard, giving him no redeeming characteristics whatsoever. Oh, please! Would the Lois that we all love really have spent years with someone worthless? Or have not noticed those flaws?

Richard is complicated to deal with. He's in the way. So, yes, we need to get him out of the way, but we can do that without reinventing the character. The easiest thing is to just kill him off, of course. To keep him around and in character is lot a more work. (Trust me, I know).
(no subject) - htbthomas on November 5th, 2006 02:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mr_beeto on November 5th, 2006 03:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - htbthomas on November 5th, 2006 06:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 02:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 02:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mr_beeto on November 5th, 2006 03:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - htbthomas on November 5th, 2006 06:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mr_beeto on November 5th, 2006 07:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 02:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - htbthomas on November 6th, 2006 03:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 02:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 02:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mr_beeto on November 6th, 2006 02:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
Loiskalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 02:46 am (UTC)
*Kiss* I love you, you know that? God, I feel so much better after having talked to you guys about this. It's nice to know I'm not the only one out there annoyed and disgusted by this. I just don't understand why you would want to change them entirely.
Loiskalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 02:37 am (UTC)
She's the model for a Midwestern woman, how can they argue with her being a Christian? *rolls eyes* Seems to me that it would be more odd if she wasn't. I'll admit that I'm not the most religious of any of us, but now I'm curious to see what you have planned for Rev. Swan.

Even more curious to see what you have planned for this AU. :)

And it's nice to know I'm not alone in this. I felt bad for going on the rant, but I just had to get it out. She made me so mad with those comments.
Brian's FanFic Journalmr_beeto on November 6th, 2006 02:49 am (UTC)
People like that just ruin it for the rest of us. There are some fic writers out there that completely take their story somewhere that I don't want to go. So, I don't go. I stop reading. I don't excoriate them in a review.

As far as my story goes, I'm neither advocating or discouraging any specific religious viewpoint, but I do have characters in the story who are religious. Martha, for one, and some Other characters that will end up with a bigger role later on. I was surprise that some of the were offended by the "religious references." Some people really need to lighten up.

If you really want me to, I can reveal my AU thoughts. Shall I post it here, or send it in an email or IM?
(no subject) - kalalanekent on November 6th, 2006 03:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mr_beeto on November 6th, 2006 03:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
Anissa Royanissa7118 on November 6th, 2006 08:18 am (UTC)
I got some grief when I posted chapter 39 of HIWTHI at FF who didn't like my portrayal of Martha as a devout woman.

Maryse/Anissa/SRWidow (by the time I'm done I'll have an identity crisis like our Lois') weighing in: The General's Daughter says you can tell those people to kiss her @ss. I sooooo have got to go read your story now. If I, a practicing witch, can read the above sentence and think, "Hmm, makes sense," then no one else has the right to give you grief over it.

I mean, I'm assuming you didn't make her into some cardboard stereotype. It's a logical place to go with the character (a lot of people in America are Christian, and a lot of people in the Midwest are Christian), and it's your story. I guess that's the flip side to Kala's rant: I hate people who review stories and are so blinded by their own prejudices ("I hate Little Secrets because it's a CK/LL story! Eww!") that they don't give the tale a chance. They get hung up on that one thing and harp on it. If ya don't like Martha as a Christian, either get over it or move on! Sheesh.

Although, if anybody out there has the knowledge of Judaism to pull this off, I thought of a great fanfic title tonight. "Kryptonite Isn't Kosher: The Hebrew Superman." Sound like fun?
Brian's FanFic Journalmr_beeto on November 6th, 2006 12:29 pm (UTC)
All the "religious references" are in the context of the story and the characters, so I don't think that they're cardboard stereotypes. They're based on people I've known (like my grandmother and my father, who was/is devout). To clarify, I've gotten a wide mix of reactions there: some were thrilled that I had included "religious morals", some were appalled at "religious references", and some were "Uncomfortable with the religious overtones" but thought that I "pulled it off okay." I even thought about added a disclaimer, that those references were about the characters, and not an underlying subliminal message. I decided not to worry about it, though.

Jewish Superman sounds interesting, though good luck with the circumcism.